credits not withstanding..
This morning I had an interesting realization about my roles over the years at Turbine. I flirted with the Creative Director position several times, but each time backed away from the role at some point, sometimes after having the role for a while. For me, it was a naturally attractive position. I’m the type of person who not only has and recognizes good ideas from others, but am someone who can get them implemented either through my own perspiration or the inspiration of others. I always seemed to have the teams ear, and I think it was primarily because they had mine as well.
But what I realized this morning is that in this particular environment the management of the company was more interested in my ability to sell things to the team than my ability to rationalize the correct answer from the team. In fact, there was a repeating pattern of behavior that showed as much. What they wanted out of a CD was someone to sell whatever shlock was tossed down from high above on the mountain regardless of if it made sense or not; a yes man with the teams ear. A CD in this environment would be part used car salesmen, part fall guy. To be able to sell it, they’d need to be someone who had credentials with their team; but inevitably, it would be their credentials which would act as fuel, burned away on a given task. And thus, with each flirtation, an uncompromising position would be forced, and I’d back away from the position rather than compromise my beliefs or relationship with my team.
Now; DDO has shipped. It is what it is, but what it isn’t is a game with a proper credits list. In management’s infinite wisdom, it was deemed that anyone who was not with the company at the moment of ship would have their credit on the game revoked, regardless of if they wrote like half the game code or not. Quite a few of us bailed on that project due to a wide range of very valid reasons, as for myself, I was interviewing with Harmonix while being offered the CD position at Turbine, and when I backed away from the position yet again quickly turned in managements eyes. I was not willing to tote a line of action I didn’t believe in.
The only rational reason for not giving people their rightful credits is that those involved are acting out of petty and spite. In fact, Ken’s post on the matter seems to confirm it. You can reason the whole thing here, but I’ll pull out the poignant part for you:
“And if some of those people who had left did care that strongly, if it was or is that important, *to them*, to get a credit...they could have stayed and finished the game. A fairly simple calculation.”
It’s sad, because many of the people who were not credited were incredibly talented individuals who I loved working with (and some I currently work with again at Harmonix). Many of the things which made that game work at all can be directly attributed back to these people, who worked their asses off for the company. Crediting them doesn’t diminish the credits of those still hard at work on the game.
Perhaps they see it as a way to scare employees into staying, but I think this type of treatment speaks to the type of environment and executives that make someone want to leave a company in the first place, don’t you?

30 Comments:
Have you actually looked at the final credits for the game?
Judging from your post, you haven't.
Ah, yes I have. Open the manual that ships with the box and see for yourself.
Uhm, I see your name there Jason.
Look again.
Mr Booth,
I have few positive things to say about AC2, but of those few, the player music was nothing short of genius. I personally wish to thank you for bringing that experience to the players.
Best of luck at Harmonix.
Well, he's not anywhere in my manual that shipped with the game. Anonymous must have a special manual.
It's possible that Anonymous is referring to the electronic credits screen that can be viewed in-game, not in the manual. I understand that "Additional Art/Design/Programing by" credits are given there.
They are just not in the printed manual.
Since this is a thread on rightful credits, I can't let an AC2 music system reference pass without mentioning Geoff Scott, who was my partner in crime for that system, and Dan Ogles, who re-wrote the low level sound and music code a week before ship.
Hey Dave! Hows the new gig treating you? Drop me an email sometime ;)
Maybe the other Anonymous is KEN "I THINK I SAVED AC BY MADE TURNED IT INTO MICROSOFT EXCEL" TROOP
KEN "I THINK I SAVED AC" TROOP, imo you were the downfall of Asheron's Call with your ideas of change. As soon as you arrived so did the XP catered dungeons which were the first in Asheron's Call and really shifted focus from Online World to Online XP farming. I also remember casinos appearing along with double portal ties and lifestone recalls and town recalls and such...weightless pyreals and spell research one of the coolest and unique features of Asheron's Call turned into every other RPG where you read scrolls. (Yes abused but there could have been a better fix than removing it completely)
Now now, as much distaste as I may have for some of Ken's choices over the years, he is not responsable for every change you didn't like with the AC franchise or DDO.
Wow, I can't believe I'm actually defending Ken after the BS he posted about DDO credits. But I guess for me it's the more general issue of one person not being solely responsable for an entire game, and the users/press's desire to attribute everything to one individual.
On a tangent about the AC1 spell research system; it was good in theory, but horrible in implimentation. Cutting it out was the right move given the timeframe, etc. But what really should have been done (in a non-realistic ideal world) is it should have been a spell creator; basically, limit it to three items or so; have the combination of components imply the spell, and the ordering of components imply a balance tradeoff such as speed vs strength vs. mana cost. Make it so that 90% of the combinations produce a result, and it's up to your playstyle to determine the tradeoff's, allowing each user to have a unique book of spells, while allowing the designers a controllable framework for them.
I worked with Jason Booth at Turbine for almost 9 years. I can honestly say that he would always tell it like it is. Many times managment would not like to talk about the big white elephant in the room, but Jason would shine a light on it. Many managment folks resented him for that, but he was always right.
Jason was just uncouth about how he approached things. That's what led to his being fired from Turbine.
I recall when he told Robert Blackadder (the senior producer at the time) to "fuck off, I do what I want and answer only to Jeff Anderson" when Rob tried to schedule him for tasks. Or when the time he and Dan Ogles threw a fit when it was announced that Wizards wanted to change the combat system so it was more in line with traditional MMOs. Or when Jason walked out of a meeting as a form of "protest".
Things like that don't belong in a professional environment on any level.
clearly you have a nack for re-writting history; I never told Rob 'fuck off, I only listen to Anderson'. I think I only talked to Jeff about 4 times that year, so he's hardly the person I would be responding too.
Yes, I was always a controversial figure at Turbine. Love me or hate me, agree or disagree, I was going to let people know what I thought. But if we all just kissed ass and said things were great when they clearly were not then you wouldn't have a place in this world; and that wouldn't be good, now, would it?
The point was not that you expressed a differing opinion. It was how you expressed it. Be professional about it, for God's sake.
Funny how Rob himself told several of us one day that you yourself told him to "fuck off". Why would he make that up?
Bottom line though is that I agree with you about the credits. People who worked on the game, especially those who worked on it for as long as you did, obviously contributed and therefore should have received credit. You were robbed.
Troop, btw, left to go to Wizards of the Coast. He can now fuck things up over there. Go go gadget ignorance!
Getting things done at Turbine required extreme measures. At harmonix, you simply have to state a reasonable case and someone will give you a reasonable answer and rational. But lets face it, whoever you are, you know that isn't the case at Turbine. Someone up high gets a whim, and suddenly everything is pulled out from under you. That doesn't make for good development, or good company health. You sit waiting for the axe to fall, because you know it will. There's a reason DDO shipped and MEO hasn't, and ignoring the problems was a big reason why.
Now, I will readily admit to some evil enjoyment in certain cases, but I am much happier not having to come down with a nuclear warhead when some bone headed move comes down the pipe. Those are the exact types of things that managers are supposed to filter out in advance, and that company heriarchy is supposed to protect people from. Instead, the filter seemed to work in the oposite direction. I shouldn't have to deliver the mail to show management that they are wasting money by not hiring an intern to do the task. That having every developer on the project sift through a giant box looking for thier mail each day is a really bad use of resources. These things should be obvious, and if they are not, it should be easy to point them out and not require theatrics.
As for Ken, as I told him at GDC, I think he makes a lot more sense there than at a video game company.
Ok, so I found this just from a random link on a message board, but I just wanted to say I loved the time I spent playing AC, and since you had a part in working on that game, wanted to pass along kudos to you.
Thanks for a wonderful gaming experience. :)
Hello Jason,
I also followed a link here. I would like to thank you and your team for the wonderful music in AC2. Although music isn't typically a definitive characteristic of a game, I thought it was just that in AC2. I miss hearing it. Thank you for your creative efforts with AC and AC2.
Best of luck in the future!
I loved the spell creation in AC1, in fact, it is the only game I have ever played where you could LEARN a spell by having a ENEMY player cast it on you, and you 'reverse enginering' his movements and words into a spell you could cast yourself.
Thats the best memory I have from AC1 - a Zombie taught me a spell which I could use to kill him with, think it was Cold 1 or something, forgotten now.
.. I always wished AC2 would be AC1+ Updated Graphics, Quests and whatnot, instead it became.. well,.. a console title.
and DDO.. Well, lets just say I wont be subscribing that game for a while.
[5$ a month, sure]
Jason, we of the decal team have often had an inside track of what goes on at Turbine, and I must say they don't deserve half the talent they have anymore.
Good luck and find a way to bring us another 5 years or so of excitement and frustration...
Speaking of AC2 music, we've been able to extract the vault music tracks and vignettes (a couple of cute extras in there too!) but noone we know is savvy enough to write a DirectMusic player to recreate the ambiant music or the instrument music.
Any tips?
tgn: Uh, yeah, assuming you can extract all the files, it should be pretty straight forward. I wrote an app to demo that system outside of AC2 a while back, but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to release it.
Anyway, there are basically background tracks, monster melodies, and player melodies. A background track is always playing, even if your not hearing anything; it sets up the chord structure for the rest of the music. You should be able to load all the files into a direct music project and view the heriarchy so you can figure out which ones you actually call play on. I tended to nest things pretty deeply, but the naming conventions are pretty solid so it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.
I also wrote a complete and detailed breakdown of the system in Direct X 9 audio: Exposed, which would pretty much spell it all out for you as well.
Thank you for the pointers!
So many of us are still in denial that AC2 is gone. It wasn't perfect, but it was our world.
heh TGN denial ? is that a river in Egypt ? . Because thats what most of Turbines Execs seem to think .
Jason I loved the music in AC2 it was just a shame that most of the time I had to have it all turned off to run the game as smoothly as possible . As to Turbine , mismanagement for teh win (to use gamer speak), after taking part in AC2's VG programme and witnessing some of the gross stupidity put forward from higher up im suprised they have any original design talent left at all . That sort of idiocy must really frustrate people working for Turbine who have no say .
Anyway I hope that your work at harmonix gives you satisfaction and the creative freedom to produce more great work .
AC was and probably always will be my favorite MMO. Thanks for your hand in all of those wonderful memories.
OMG, that last comment must be from Ogawa. AC is still the mmorpg that I think of when I think about mmorpgs.
The music system in AC2 was just super great, i really have to thank you for that it was a really new experience.
Its nice to get some "view" of Turbine politics even if always thought it would be the way you describe it from how they act and what comes out of Turbine.
About DDO: I like this game.. or lets say what we have right now of a game that needed at least 6 more month to grow up. I really hope that Turbine dont screw this like the screwed the launch of AC2..
i wanna see the game matureing, getting more content very soon or it will die like AC2 did.. another game base that had great potential but was fucked up because of strange Turbine politics.. ( no, we dont listen to gamers, who are they?.. what are they for?.. aah.. yeah right to give us money )
Good luck in the future, i wish you a more productive and creative work environment than in turbine :o).
Greets
Waldgeist
Crazed man...just crazed. I always loved your crayzay ass, your creativity, and your 'screw you, I know this is what's right' attitude.
Don't ever let anyone Blandy Blanderson you into some overrated 'professionalism' man...
Peace,
Pen (Jin Lee)
fHi Jason, I had wondered what happened at Turbine....a lot of what you have said in your blog makes sense.
FWIW Guitar Hero is a huge hit here with us at my new company.
drop me a line sometime
Freezerman@gmail.com
hey man, i just found your blog anew, as i'm sure i have a billion times before. anyways i just saw the trailer for rock band and it looks fucking awesome. i myself am working with a foot in the CG and music world, making cg for music videos ... funny world.. i am amazed you stayed at turbine as long as you did, i had to bail a long time before you did, but maybe your generally laid back attitude made it easier for you to deal with the BS :)
For what it's worth, a great deal of folks DID go to bat for the departed souls who stood to be unrecognized on the credits list for DDO. That they were included as an "additional thanks" section was only as a compromise to allay the uproar caused by the decision not to include these and other names. It was among the more heated in my brief time there.
Given the record for ignoring federal temporary worker laws and skirting around overtime laws by merely mentioning people should "want" to come in longer hours or *wince* "want to want" to, I'm severely conflicted about the now success of the product formerly known as MEO.
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